Monday, 15 April 2013

Sunday, 24 May 2009

Permit dodgers- a curse on honest anglers! + Matilda News!

We are slowly but surely getting the message across that illegal angling on the lochs will not be tolerated. Another angler fishing illegally was sent packing last week and now that we have the new signs stating that fishing without a permit is strictly prohibited there will be no excuse for
not having a permit.
Take a look at the photo (above) . This is a type of puzzle, have a go and see if you can do it. It’s called Spot the notice board!

This is the view of the boathouse from the passenger seat in a car travelling towards Selkirk (it is even closer travelling the other way). Now we had an “organised” group of anglers who stopped at the boathouse and went down to see if they could see any sign of a notice board!
Unbelievably they could find no sign of a notice board with information about the lochs/contact details/rules/where to get permits, phone numbers etc and as they had made no prior arrangement they felt they were left with no option but to fish illegally.

Does this notice (below) have anything to do with Permits?

Please forgive the sarcasm, we have heard some good ones but this really takes the biscuit, there are two ways from the road down to the boathouse, one by means of constructed steps and handrail (see photo) which takes you by the notice board, the other down a steep bank. The smart money is on most people using the steps!

If any blog readers have the same difficulty in locating the notice board please write in and let us know as we are erecting a new one in the next few weeks and it may be the case that we need to enlarge it, it’s currently only 1.4 x 1.8 metres!

The people concerned have behaved abominably and shamed decent anglers everywhere, most right thinking individuals when they have made a mistake own up and say sorry, not this crew; they freely admit to spending time at the boathouse thoroughly scrutinising three (I assume) of the four sides of the boathouse yet unfortunately they could see no notice board! Are we to believe by some conglomeration of extraordinary circumstance that they did not follow the well trodden path that circles the boathouse or spot the notice board? Not a bit of it they tripped up over their own convoluted and completely fabricated story and they went on ahead and commenced to fish illegally!

We asked the leader of the group for a simple apology and an assurance that this situation would never be repeated – he flatly refused!
These people fished illegally by not having permits, they had no knowledge of our rules/protocols, they had no idea of restricted areas on the lochs, in short they behaved in a manner to bring discredit on the angling fraternity!

There are no ifs and buts, it is plain and simple! We could ignore transgressions such as this but in deference to anglers who act in a proper fashion and past club officials who fought long and hard to implement this legislation we are implementing the order vigorously.

How would you feel fishing next to an angler who hasn’t bothered to obtain a permit? Doubtless you would feel aggrieved and so you should, we urge the decent anglers (who make up the bulk of our visitors) to immediately report these occurrences so we can rid ourselves of these ignorant freeloaders!
And if any permit dodging Neds are actually reading this – we are on to you! You will be detected and at the very least removed from the lochs, preferably you will be dealt with by the courts under the terms of the above act.
The foregoing matter has been dealt with under our disciplinary policies and the leader of the group has been barred from fishing on the lochs for an indefinite period. Further action is possible in the immediate future.

Both lochs are covered by The Rivers Tweed and Eye Protection Order.

An angler must be in possession of a valid written permit prior to fishing.

So what drives anglers to fish illegally? Well it’s a game with some to see if they can evade detection and win the prize of the permit money, with others it’s because they feel they have a god given right to fish as no one can own running water. Others know it’s an offence to fish for game fish without a permit, but coarse fish/Pike? “Yer havin a laugh mate”! The odd half wit just doesn’t understand and on explaining the procedure is happy to comply, and a very few can’t afford the price of a permit yet seem to be able to buy packets of cigarettes and get tanked up on a regular basis!

Whatever the reasons are for not purchasing a permit prior (unless an arrangement has been made with the loch keeper) to fishing, be forewarned we will detect you and punitive action will be taken, we are determined to stamp out this corrupt and unprincipled behaviour. Anglers who pay for permits provide the club with funds to carry out required improvements, so next time you come across a Muppet fishing without a permit bear this in mind, why should you have to pay and he does not.

It must be said however that the huge majority of anglers are honest decent individuals only too willing to comply. And to these people we say come back anytime you will be most welcome!

Some may take the view that I am somewhat polemic in my outlook, well you would be correct!

Consider if you were in the position of having to give up your days fishing to deal with these apologists for permit evasion then I suspect you also would very soon reach the end of your tether.
Bottom line is it stops here; every agency such as Loch bailiffs, Scottish Office Wardens, Tweed River Bailiffs and the Police will be used to rid ourselves of this cancer on the angling body!

Please consider the following hypothetical situation – A shopkeeper sends anglers to a venue and tells them not to worry about obtaining permits prior to fishing but just to go ahead and fish and get a permit on the bank if challenged – what is the legal situation? Write in with your views.

Answer next week.

Decent right minded anglers are welcome at our lochs and always will be, permit dodgers are not!

Waltzing Matilda!Yes she’s back; she waltzed back into my net yesterday (Saturday) for the second time after a valiant struggle, (photo below), full story next week!
above - Matilda @ her heaviest weight yet 8lbs 4oz
Also next week – Naming and Shaming! Fall foul of our rules and you will appear here! We will be sharing with other clubs the anglers names barred from fishing on our lochs.


Anonymous said...
Just wondering why you cant get a ticket on the bank. I dont mind nipping up to the cottage to get the permit but some people like to start fishing very early, I wouldn t want to knock on someones door at 6am to get a fishing ticket. I fish loch ken regularly, there you can just set up and pay the bailiff when he comes round later.
Jerry said...
I can see you have been experiencing problems the problem with St Mary's is historical and has not been policed effectively in the past.You are now turning around years of lawless angling which is never easy! Best of luck I agree with everything you have said
Anonymous said...
Quite right mate, there are too many of these freeloaders around ban the lot of them. Your poser at the end is not too difficult both the shopkeeper and the anglers are guilty of breaking the law.That Matilda looks to be in excellent condition I hope no one kills her.
Anonymous said...
was this group from the PAC/PAAS if so they should be reported to the committee.You have my sympathies in my time roving all over Ive come accross many wasters as you have mentioned. All I can say is keep at it you will wear them down. Your bit at the end both parties are guilty!ie Shopkeeper and Anglerts
hello anon, thank you for your valid point. This is the situation - the lochs are covered by the protection order which requires that anglers are required to have a permit prior to fishing. Now taking note of your experience at Loch Awe, we in fact operate a similar system and have done for years. If you want an early start all you need do is phone Isabel or Harry the day before you want to fish and come to an arrangement about where you will be able to meet with an appointed person to obtain your permit. This is not as stated in the order but is a variance the we employ to accommodate anglers such as yourself who like early starts.So please feel free to call them and arrange your day in advance. Thank you for not phoning at 06.00hrs amazingly some people do! Hope this answers your query.
Hello Jerry,many thanks for your comments they are most encouraging cheers!
Hello Anon, thank you for your comments I agree wholeheartedly with your view, these people need firm action to dissuade them from poaching!Re the shopkeeper and anglers, answer on Sunday from a Scottish Criminal Lawyer!
The group mentioned were a group of anglers, they have been dealt with according to our operating policies. But thank you for that advice should such a situation arise we will almost certainly bear this in mind. I am disappointed that you also have encountered such louts these are exactly the people that could put angling at risk! Shopkeeper/anglers see Sunday.
Anonymous said...
Obviously these "anglers" were liars were they fishing for Pike or Trout? Why didnt you ban the whole lot of them instead of only the leader? You didnt answer the point about anglers hooking and killing Matilda are you doing anything to stop this from happening? Your teaser is not much of a test Shopkeeper guilty Anglers guilty, its common sense.
Anonymous said...
the rules regarding permits is a very stupid mentioned before i would not wake someone up for a permit but rather get one later in the far as i can see this is the ONLY fishing club i have come across with this silly rule that and wanting to start fights wit a nationaly recognised predator club mean i will never fish your water and will tell many others i meet on the bank and on forums etc to stay away from your water.PAC member
Anonymous said...
Having read your thread,i have to say that in all the years fishing i have never had to go and chap some ones door for a permit prior to fishing,i like to start very early and would not consider doing this,you say phone and make prior arrangments,what if its a spur of the moment decision to fish St Marys loch.If you employ baillifs then surely they should be doing what their paid for issueing/checking permits on the bank,NOT FROM THEIR BEDs.
Anonymous said...
I have fished loch awe most of my life,what experience does Essox relate to.
Hello Anon, you have fished loch Awe most of your life! What has that to do with anything! If you wish to post here please at least be coherent, are you the first poster? how would I know because you all post anonymously!
Hello Anon, (the one who say our bailiffs work from their beds).Let me clear something up right now - if you decide to come to our lochs on the spur of the moment and it is outwith what would be termed acceptable hours then YOU DON'T COME! Quite simply you go somewhere else. It's OUR fishery you want to come here you abide by OUR rules plain and simple! We have hundreds of visitors every year who go out of their way to comply with our rules if you can't do that then grace some other fishery with your presence! As to your comment about our bailiffs we decide what our bailiffs do, not you! You are the guest on our fishery when you come it then follows you comply with our rules!
Esox said...
Hello Anon (the one who suspects the visiting group as being liars) yes their story is convoluted to say the least what has been published is only the tip of the iceberg, their visit was a catalogue of errors displaying a shocking standard of behaviour. They were fishing for Pike and it may yet be the case that the whole group are barred from fishing!

The only steps we can take to protect "Matilda" are to inform visiting anglers to return her safely, all members are aware of this.
Simon Ward said...
Greetings Esox, been reading some of the comments on your post you really do have your work cut out! It's a pity the idiots didn't post using their names then you could have barred the lot of them. Who exactly do these people think they are if you visit a friends house and they ask you to remove your shoes YOU DO JUST THAT!It applies equally to fishing. This lot seem to think they can dictate what you should and should not dobut I see your are equal to that. good honest anglers are aplenty and you obviously attract many of those ban all these idiots and you will make the world of angling a better place. I am a partner in a small fishing venture and belive you me NONE of these people would cross our threshold. Would be very interested to read the whole story will it be published?
Best Wishes Simon
Hello Anon, (the one who says our rules are stupid),I assume you are one of the visitors in the group mentioned, you don't seem to have too much to say in your defence "rules are stupid hardly cuts it now does it? You witter on about not wanting to wake anyone up early in the morning it was 08.00hrs for gods sake you clearly visit our site often did you not see on every page the following -


But then again you couldn't find the noticeboard at the boathouse could you so there was very little chance of you finding the above on every page on our website! Did it not occur to you to note down our number oh but then again our number was on our notice board and on our website which appear to be problematic for you!

People like you place angling in jeopardy every time you set foot on a bank, you waltz in oblivious to rules/regulations and common courtesy and do as you think fit,without a care for anyone else other than yourself if you had the stomach to include your name you could have joined the leader of your group in being barred from fishing. As an angler you have behaved disgracefully showing no respect for the property of others whatsover. We are not the only fishing club that has this rule most of the clubs in the Borders have this rule and quite frankly if you do not like our rules do us all a favour and cause havoc somewhere else.

So you are a PAC member I bet they are well impressed with your behaviour - NOT. That makes it even worse, not only have you made a fool of yourself you have disgraced the PAC! Show me where in the PAC code of conduct it condones conduct such as you have displayed? By your ignorance you have set the PAC back years, they are intent on promoting excellence and that includes abiding by the rules of a fishery you visit!
I am also a member of the PAC and am ashamed to be associated with behaviour such as your group displayed the PAC is about improving standards,conduct,education,
research, not about making a fool of yoursel behaving in a loutish fashion fabricating stories to try and save your bacon in short being a member of the PAC is about everything that you are not!
You cannot seem to grasp the basic principle here and I can't really make it any simpler but here goes - The lochs are covered by a Protection Order (A law that has criminal implication if it is broken!)It states you MUST HAVE A PERMIT PRIOR TO FISHING! Now just exactly what is it that you do not understand here? We have allowed a variance in that if you inform us before you arrive we will allow you on to the water once an arrangement has been made to secure your permits! Your point about the forums
I also am a member of most Pike forums and I will be looking out for any comments you make, oh and if I were you I would check with PAC HQ (or maybe you are their official spokesman)before you bury this decent organisation with any more of your inane drivel! And as for telling others please do because if they are of the same ilk as you and your group you are most definitely not welcome at our lochs.
Hello again Simon good to hear some rational talk , I have been here all night it's becoming extremely tedious. I wont say anything about the standard of the posts made you could form your own conclusions I have no doubt. What I will say is that it is very worrying to hear some of these people spout forth with their peculiar views on angling etiquette.Good to hear from you again. Cheers
Daz said...
Simon Ward said...
Hi again Esox, you seem to have silenced the idiots,they really are an embarrassment to decent anglers, these people will end up as wandering minstrels as they get banned from one water after another. Could I contact you on e mail to get more on this
story as you didnt say if you would be publishing it or not.
cheers Simon
Anonymous said...
What a load of dribble,you telling me, that should i wake up one morning early and decide i fancy a spot of fishing i cant fish st marys loch,because its too early to chap someones door for a permit or because i didnt phone the day before and make arrangments with the bailiff.Have you lot never done any spur of the moment fishing,not everything has to be planned.Take a look at yourselfs guys,its no wonder st marys has a bad reputation,things where bad with the last commitee,they dont seem to be getting any better with this mob,or is it the we are the tweed system and we will do as we want attitude.You want to attract pike anglers to this water for only one reason,to benefit from there permits as you have lost so many good trout anglers not being able to stock the loch anymore.Then again as far as i can see speaking with a few ex members the best thing for St marys would be to get some decent commitee members who had some idea of how to make things better.
Regards NON pac/pass member.
Just a past member of St marys expressing my views.
Anonymous said...
You have hundreds of anglers who comply with you rules??? then why is it we here of anglers being put of the bank each week,for not getting permits in advance ???? rather silly being put of a water by a bailiff with a permit book in their pocket.Would it not be better to issue the permit there and then,after all with the amount of members we have recently lost we do need the permit income.
Club member
James. Castle Douglas said...
I am a concerned trout angler,who has fished St Marys many times in the past,unfortunatly having moved from the area i am now unable to get a day on the loch very often,Having spoken with a couple of colleagues ex members of the club i was saddened to hear that the club has lost so many members recently,can i ask why this is the case,i am being told that due to the fact that the water can no longer be stocked the fishing is now poor,is this true,if this is the case and the water has a good head of pike should the club not consider now looking at there rules and adapting to meet the needs of local and travelling anglers who wish to fish for other species other than trout,could it not be arranged that the bailiffs who we know are local could now start to issue permits on the loch rather than from there house.For all the years and all the waters i have fished there are one or two who have a policy like this and those are private syndicate type waters.
Anonymous said...
Hello Annon

Essox comment(i assume you are one of the group involved)Well unfortunatly i am not a member of this group,however if i was local to them i would be.The replys from Simon/Jerry regarding Idiots/liars,you dont know these lads,i on the other hand do and all i will say to all who sits reading this THERE ARE TWO SIDES TWO EVERY STORY,Remember that in life and you will get on just fine.
Cheers P
Anonymous said...
These people fished illegally by not having permits,they had no knowledge of our rules/protocols !!!

Essox why dont you post the truth,i have just spoken with my mate who is a member of this club,did they not supply there parent body with a copy of the permit obtained on the day,he also states that the loch keeper also had been informed allmost eight weeks in adavnce of the date,as they had arranged a trip and had to cancel,wich was rescheduled.Looks like your comments are all one sided.
PAAS/PAC member
HiSimon please feel free to mail me whether we publish or not will depend on the group concerned.
cheers Richard
Hello PASS/PAC member, not sure who you refer to as a "parent body" but the club concerned did purchase permits on the day they were detected that is the choice buy a permit or leave! You are correct that the original trip was rescheduled and it was made knowm to our official that they would return in the future, they did not however give a DATE for their return! When you book a holiday do you say to the agent that you would like to depart in the near future or do you book a firm date?Perhaps you should refer to your mates copy of a "letter" that was sent to us then compare it to the brief story in the blog then you would know what the truth was! Regards ESOX
Hello James,
Sorry to hear of your concern because there really is no need! Don't know who the two ex members are but I do know that they are seroiusly off the mark when talking about club business. Let me put your mind at rest - We did lose a couple of Trout members through natural wastage and a few Pike fishers. But here's the good news we have taken 11 Pike anglers off our waiting list and joined them into the club. We have a healthy waiting list and if you had bothered to read earlier posts you would have seen that we have a cap on total membership and on the number of day tickets we issue doesn't look like we have lost too much now does it?
Again your informants are wide of the mark when you say the fishing is poor! Again if you had read the earlier catch reports you would have gleaned that this year has seen one of the best starts to the season that we can remember and it has continued to be so, maybe the anglers that informed you were not skilled enough in techniques required to catch wild Trout! You mention changing our mode of operation - Why should we,! We have hundreds of visitors every year our membership is full to the limit we have set we are on target to purchase a new Lomond boat. I am sure you know the phone number of the club being an ex member why don't you phone and renew old acquaintances, no one here can place you when were you a member? Anyway I hope I have set your mind at rest please do not worry on our account we are doing just fine!
Hello P, There are 2 sides to every story - I agree! But the one backed up by the facts is always the winner. I refer you to the "letter" the group sent to us it's quite revealing but if you can't get a copy I will publish it as it's great reading, fiction mind you but never the less a hoot!
Hello Club member,I wonder who you are then? You should really come to the meetings instead of hiding in the shadows you would be much better informed! Let me put you right on a couple of points. When an illegal angler is caught there are 2 choices (1) they can purchase a permit on the bank and a warning will be issued that a future repetition will lead to the Tweed river Bailiffs being involved which could lead to arrest confiscation of fishing gear and car. (2) For whatever reason they cannot purchase a permit they are removed car number taken and warned as above! Now there that all seems to be in order doesn't it. Mmm I wonder if you really are a club member you seem to be severely lacking in knowledge about the club.Let me embarrass you further - our membership is up to it's limit and although we do need revenue as all clubs with material assets do we in fact had a very good year last year, and this year already are on course to experience our best year ever which will result in the purchase of a new boat. Dear oh dear you do seem to have been severely misinformed perhaps next time you should contact someone who knows and not listen to green eyed fairy tales!
Hello Ex Club member non PAAS/PAC member. Ahh your keen on spur of the moment fishing but make sure you have a permit now. Our members and welcomed guests can come anytime they like we look after the good ones. we have had a clear out of muppets and the club members and guests can now enjoy their fishing at peace.
A bad reputation you say mmm that's a worry, only it was until you discover those that attack us are the very kind we do not want on the lochs, so far so good eh, seems to be working out just fine! Very disappointing to hear that the last two committees did not meet your expectations, thats life mate at least you did the decent thing by falling on your sword! Your point about losing Trout anglers because we cannot stock anymore is true! Now there's a thing the first correct point in your post. Yes a few fishmongers have left leaving the true wild fish hunters and conservationists, now that seems to have worked out really well don't you think? Check our revenue forecast in an earlier reply, oh dear you have lost again score zero for that comment, not doing very well are you? I wonder if your association with an excess of ex members is colouring your judgement? Now lets see where we are - Club membership full, revenue reaching an all time high, investment in new assets, club free of troublmakers, excellent standard of visiting angler yes I think all is in order and as it should be! looks like you being an ex member is the best thing for all concerned.

kind regards, Just a club official doing what needs to be done!
Anonymous said...
I think the clubs doing fine, its nice to see that only responsible anglers are allowed to fish mary's, some of the lochs near me are a mess, trees hacked down, litter everywhere, this gives the good anglers a bad name.

About the permit issue that seems to be upsetting many, maybe a simple online system can be made using paypal. You pay your permit via paypal, the club can then email a receipt which can be printed out and taken with you. Now theres no excuse to not pay.

Dave, nr Dumfries
Helen said...
Superb entertainment and i don't even fish you have a nice turn of phrase esox made some o them fakes squeal so they did. More please.
Hello Dave Thank you for your kind comments, we will run St Mary's as a responsible fishery. Those who do not like to act as thinking responsible anglers should look elsewhere as you have rightly said these neds that have destroyed places around your area will not be tolerated!
Your point about online tickets is most interesting and our Treasurer has looked into this and i think it likely that we will see tickets online in the very near future. Many thanks for your post Richard
hello Helen think you are the first female to post, you need only post the once there were 3 copies of your post.
cheers Richard
Anonymous said...
simple fact of matter is thats its your water and your rules.................i need not say anymore ;)
Frank Warburton Cumbria said...
Hi really cant see what all the fuss is about. If me and the lads want to go fishing anywhere we look them up on the internet and search out for a phone number to make ouselves known to the agents and hopefully get a little insider information. I would have thought this modus operandi was the template for all angling visits. Clearly it is not anglers such as you have described and some of the posters require to be rooted out before they destroy our fishing. The irresponsible attitude of these people is infamous, ignorant and in the case you mention illegal. Don't give them an inch be unrelenting in your quest to weed them out for the sake of angling it must be so.
Liked your teaser about the angler and the shopkeeper and prior to reading this article thought both scenarios would have been unlikely now I am not so sure.
Hello Amom,Thank you for your pragmatic comment, it beggars belief that some of the posters still do not understand this!
Hello Frank, Thank you for your constructive and sensible comments, I believe that the majority of anglers take a similar view Regards

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